Talk:Randy Shughart

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{Fucking loser for saying either of these men are irrelevant to history and shouldn't be remembered. They did a wonderful thing. Your great grandmother didnt do shit


{Talk header}}

Moved:[edit]

[1] "Randy" is more common. --Jiang 02:00, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Why was this moved to SFC Randall Shughart (US Army)? --Jiang

Ditto - UtherSRG 03:11, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Because when search engines list pages they use the title of the page as the main link. Being detailed and precise in the title removes all confussion from users of what they should click. For example, if they see a page titled "Randy Shughart" and one named "SFC Randall 'Randy' Shughart (US Army)" which one do you think they would click? Check out Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision). Btw, before you use Google Fight as a resource, you should do a deep through of the search. If you didn't notice, most of the pages that come up with "Randy Shughart" have the title "SFC Randall Shughart". IMO, the page should be moved to SFC Randall 'Randy' Shughart (US Army), but that's just me. :) --Maio 12:52, Jan 16, 2004 (UTC)

The proper US military naming convention would be SFC Randall "Randy" Shughart, USA. Or Sergeant First Class Randall "Randy" Shughart, U.S. Army. Or SFC Randall "Randy" Shughart, U.S. Army. (most commonly used.) Swatjester 07:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

As a convention its (Rank Abbreviation) (First name) "Nickname if any" (Last Name), U.S. (branch of service).

Whoever wrote that this page was a waste of disk space needs hit with a brick.

Amen to that Douglasnicol 22:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Seconded. A Sniper shot seems more poetic justice though IMHO. Mcase07 (talk) 20:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

POV[edit]

"only" "intense", c'mon, these words like these make this a novelization of a movie, not an encyclopaedic entry. Fix it up. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 07:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Looks better a year later now. Jmlk17 06:57, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

What happened to his body?[edit]

Was it ever recovered or what. Gary Gordon's page says nothing about this either. The army didn't just leave them behind did they? - Tronno ( t | c ) 06:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

According to Mark Bowden's book both Gary and Randy's bodies were recovered. If you read the book you can conclude that Randy was the one seen being drug around in the streets of Mogadishu.Cannibalorgydotcomdotnet (talk) 16:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect sir. Yes MSG. Shughart's body was recovered after several days. The infamous picture of the US Soldier being dragged shirtless through the street was not either of the CAG Snipers. It was of crew chief Cleveland. Please re-read the annotations in Black Hawk Down (book) Mcase07 (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I think one of the bodys was missing the head when it was returned. I know Shugarts was unidentifiable to the family friend who went to identify it. -AC

The family friend mentioned that, although unidentifiable, his body was intact. Dissentor (talk) 11:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Article needs attention[edit]

The Biography section is not a biography, but rather a rehash, practically verbatim, of the events leading up to Shughart's death as published here.[2] While the information on that site is in the public domain, and should be included here somehow, a proper biography still should be here.

As for the Medal of Honor citation section, it's a mess, repeating almost word-for-word what was cut and pasted above. That's just stupidity or laziness, or both. Alcarillo 17:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I already stared cleaning up the article on Shughart's teammante, Gary Gordon. There I edited down to the essentials the actions leading to their deaths. I think the text on Gordon's page could easily be adapted for this one.Alcarillo 15:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Team size incorrect?[edit]

So in passing I noticed that this page states that he was part of a two man sniper team. I recall Mark Bowden writing that it was a three man team, but one of the Blackhawk's crew chiefs was injured and the third sniper took control of the mini-gun. I'll look for the page right now. Does anyone else recall this?- Yes. Page 178 of the book states the third team member was Sergeant First Class Brad Hallings.Jslowik 02:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

And page 197 explains that Hallings took control of the minigun after a crew chief was injured. Jslowik 02:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Brad Hallings took command after the crew chief was wounded and unable to man the M137. Hallings took over and there are rumors (unsubstantiated) that he swore he would lay down cover for the now 2-man sniper team. Unsubstantiated yes, but the bird was forced to return to formation in orbiting the area. Will read up to confirm. Mcase07 (talk) 20:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I know this is an old thread but I recall from the book that Hallings was on the minigun covering the men until the chopper took an RPG hit and had to return to base. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MedicPCP (talkcontribs) 04:03, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

MOH Ceremony[edit]

I've read that Shugharts fatehr refused to shake the then president's hand. And despite the fact that multiple webisites, support that claim, the revision stating that is always undone. So WTF? Ref —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cannibalorgydotcomdotnet (talkcontribs) 21:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I would direct your attention to Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources. If content is not verifiable, then it cannot be included. The second and third references you cited did not include the content you are using them to cite. This is especially important when living persons (two persons in this case) are involved. ~ S0CO(talk|contribs) 21:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Bowden writes, about two thirds of the way down page 419 in Black Hawk Down, that "At the Medal of Honor ceremony for the two Delta soldiers, I read that the father of posthumous honoree Sergeant Randy Shughart insulted the president, telling him he was not fit to be commander in chief". I assume Bowden meant that he read about his incident taking place AT the Medal of Honor ceremony, NOT that he, Bowden, was AT the Medal of Honor ceremony when he, Bowden, read about the incident (ambiguous grammar in that quote from Bowden's book). Bowden footnotes the book pretty well. If you're looking for something to say about Clinton and the operation/soliders/etc. it's pretty easy to find in the book. - Gwopy 21:20, 8 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwopy (talkcontribs)
I have added a sub-section about the incident between Herbert Shughart and Clinton during the ceremony, using this article as a references. It's also mentioned in this NYT article, but doesn't have the exact quote. There's a WP article for Herbert Shughart, which I will propose for deletion since the only notability seems to be this incident. But I think it's worth including here. Halda (talk) 20:10, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Sick[edit]

Things like this just sickens me! An American soldier dies in combat and that is what happens in combat. Why does he deserves a page? He is not relevant to the course of history in any way. He wasn't relevant before he died and he ain't relevant after he died. I could make a beautiful page for my deceased great grandmother but I don't since she wasn't important in the course of history. I call for this page to be deleted along with any other page concerning soldiers who died but never did anything else than that --Andersbmeister (talk) 22:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Would you mind saying why? You've also said this in the entry on Master Sergeant Gordon. Douglasnicol 16:26, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

It is with honor and humility that I write this short note.

I was not aware of anything ever happening in Africa untill the movie "Blackhawk down" was released in the year 2001. From what I have been able to collect and read concerning the incident Randall Shughart and Gary Gordon acted with courage,determination and thought nothing of them selves and only for their comrade in arms.

I salute them and bow to their actions and pray that if I am ever faced with an dillema such as this that God will grant me strength and purity of heart to do as those two fine men did.

Forgive me if there are spelling mistakes I am only 15 years of age and english is not my first language.

As an American Army Veteran, I am somewhat dismayed by the initial entry above. Gary Gordon and Randall Shugart are American Heroes. I am hopeful that we have more men like them willing to go "Above and Beyond the call of duty" when the situation arises. Willmike (talk) 04:02, 15 February 2009 (UTC)sniffer

As I posted on Gordon's page, the man was a hero. His action were in two books, a major motion picture, and a history channel documentary. He has far earned this page.MedicPCP (talk) 04:10, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

The idea that a Congressional Medal of Honor winner is not noteworthy is unequivocally absurd. Furthermore, the actions of Mr. Shughart connect in a significant manner with broad military and government policies of the United States of America and play significantly into the debate regarding interventionist policies and necessary force protection levels. These are broad, far-reaching and powerful political and military discussion within which the actions of Mr Shughart are much more than a minor footnote. Any attempt to parallel a detailing of Mr. Shughart's backstory and actions on October 3, 1993 with "a beautiful page for my deceased great grandmother" is intellectually indefensible. The only legitimate argument for deleting this page is the policy of non-recognition/discussion/etc for "Delta Force". However, Mr. Shughart's citation for the Congressional Medal of Honor is publicly available. - Gwopy 20:54, 8 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwopy (talkcontribs)

Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon were heroes for my part, it doesn't matter to me if he was relevant before his death, at least he died a heroes death! Please don't talk like this about a soldier, he provides your freedom the very freedom that allows you to go to school, and live with safety in your country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.96.86.175 (talk) 23:55, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Don't feed the troll.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 01:45, 3 December 2013 (UTC)


I'm new to the wikipedia and after reading this article, I've got the same question. I'd appreciate it if someone would point out the relevance of the article and the relevance of the way it was written. Thanks in advance! Havlicek stole the ball (talk) 22:43, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Cleanup and Citiations[edit]

I'm going to put a little work into tightening up the article. If anyone passes by with good articles, please drop the links here. Otherwise, I'll be referencing Bowden's book and whatever I find on "the google". - Gwopy 21:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwopy (talkcontribs)

LINKS: http://www.pbs.org/weta/americanvalor/stories/shughart.html; http://www.pbs.org/weta/americanvalor/stories/durant_interview2.html; http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/mediaplayer/videoplayer.cgi?playeraddress=videoplayer.cgi;media=%2Famericanvalor%2Fdurant_56.rm%2C%2Famericanvalor%2Fdurant_220.rm;title=Mike%20Durant;playertemplate=%2Fweta%2Famericanvalor%2Fstories%2Fplayer_template.html; http://www.unitedstates.fm/2angelsfromthechopper.htm (THIS SONG IS HORRIBLE); www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,317,00.html; http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ABgmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=j_0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6914,2293922&dq=randy%20+shughart&hl=en; http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KbsiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=U7UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4143,1115384&dq=randy%20+shughart&hl=en; http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=MWAgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pWUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1259,5549172&dq=randy+shughart&hl=en; http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp - Gwopy 22:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
If nobody objects, I am going to reorganize this article to more accurately reflect the typical layout of other Medal of Honor winners. The basic structure will be similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Dunham#Dunham.27s_Defense, with "Early Life" separated from "Military Service". Within "Military Service", I will likely create subsections for "Special Forces Training" and "Deployments". Separate sections will be created for "The Battle of Mogadishu" and "Insertion to Protect Super 64". The "Medal of Honor" section with full text of the citation will remain with quotations from Mike Durrant added to the end of the section. I've also found some additional material for further reading related to the article. Cross-references to other wikipedia articles (i.e. Operation Anaconda and others) will be added and some of the language will be cleaned up in order for the article to read more as an encyclopedia article. I encourage everyone to help improve the article with information from the links listed above and/or any information that anyone finds on their own. - Gwopy 00:49, 9 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwopy (talkcontribs)

Untitled[edit]

This page is a waste of precious disk space. Peace.

If it is such a waste of "precious dick space" then how did you come to find it. Jackass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.113.5 (talk) 05:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Strider SnG[edit]

First, if "This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject" why then all the forum-like discussion is there on the Talk-page? Second, and my main 'Talk'-point is that "SnG" in the famous Strider SnG folding knife stands for Shughart and Gordon. (Could also be add to the Gary Gordon page.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.93.78.115 (talk) 23:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, that's not common knowledge, as per the naming of the SnG. Mick and Duane don't say what the names of the knives mean publicly in most cases. If you could find a reliable source stating so in a print magazine or knife book, by all means it should be included. To my knowledge, there are no sources stating such.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 19:16, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

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